Here’s where I pull together not all that closely related remarks about discussions happening on other blogs.
In Needed: straight talk on gay marriage, Rod Dreher raises the question about trade offs between sexual and religious liberty. As I’ve said, I think all the discussion of stuff like “oh no, our kids will get gay friendly lessons in the public schools” was a huge red herring in the Proposition 8 debate - you can have same-sex marriage and teach nothing at all about marriage in the schools, have same-sex marriage and allow parents to opt their children out of any classes covering sex education (as was the case in my own school system when I was young - the part about opting out, of course, not the part about same-sex marriage), or have no same-sex marriage and still have gay friendly tolerance curriculums in the schools. And, since I have several other same-sex marriage threads available, I’d ask that same-sex marriage not get discussed in this particular thread. But the question of trade offs between sexual and religious liberty can get interesting in other ways. Rod quotes Maggie Gallagher, who is quoting yet another person.
“It seemed to me the height of disingenuousness, absurdity, and indeed disrespect to tell someone it is okay to ‘be’ gay, but not necessarily okay to engage in gay sex. What do they think being gay means?” she writes in her Becket paper. “I have the same reaction to courts and legislatures that blithely assume a religious person can easily disengage her religious belief and self-identity from her religious practice and religious behavior. What do they think being religious means?”
To Feldblum the emerging conflicts between free exercise of religion and sexual liberty are real: “When we pass a law that says you may not discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation, we are burdening those who have an alternative moral assessment of gay men and lesbians.” Most of the time, the need to protect the dignity of gay people will justify burdening religious belief, she argues. But that does not make it right to pretend these burdens do not exist in the first place, or that the religious people the law is burdening don’t matter.
“You have to stop, think, and justify the burden each time,” says Feldblum. She pauses. “Respect doesn’t mean that the religious person should prevail in the right to discriminate–it just means demonstrating a respectful awareness of the religious position.”
Feldblum believes this sincerely and with passion, and clearly (as she reminds me) against the vast majority of opinion of her own community. And yet when push comes to shove, when religious liberty and sexual liberty conflict, she admits, “I’m having a hard time coming up with any case in which religious liberty should win.” …
I’m a little puzzled as to the conclusion, because to me it seems that there are obvious cases where each should win.
- If sexual orientation’s a legally protected category, and I have an ordinary management job at a regular old company, I shouldn’t be able to claim religious liberty as a basis to discriminate in hiring.
- If, on the other hand, I’m at a church, and we’re hiring a minister, religious liberty obviously trumps, and legally protected categories should be irrelevant.
Other cases could get more complicated. For instance, I think that there should not be any general parental right to opt kids out of public school classes, on religious grounds or any other (if you find the classes your kids would need to go to unacceptable, you can home school). But I think that one should, as a matter of policy, always allow parents to opt their kids out of classes dealing with sex education, lessons about marriage, or the like - whether it’s parents opting kids out of “abstinence” classes because they don’t approve of those classes’ take on sex roles, or parents opting their kids out of comprehensive sex education because they think the class gives tacit approval to teenagers having sex. To do otherwise seems, to me, too intrusive on family relationships. And, if you’re bothered by the kids that may be missing out on sex education if their parents opt them out, support Scarleteen - most teenagers do have Internet access either at home or at a friend’s house, after all.
Parents should not, on the other hand, be able to opt their children out of, say, classes on evolution, based on religious beliefs. If homosexuality is raised in the context, for example, of a general anti-bullying message, then I wouldn’t give parents a choice to opt out - any anti-bullying teaching that schools choose to give (whether it makes explicit reference to gay kids or not) should be given to all kids in the school.
Some things may be generally a protected category, but there should be cases where the protected category wouldn’t apply. For instance, married vs. single would be a protected category for employment, but dating services certainly shouldn’t be obliged to take married people on an equal basis. In fact, I think, in the interest of freedom and pluralism in personal relationships, that matchmakers of any type should have lots of freedom to openly set standards that exclude people, and solicit customers who welcome that exclusion. If some service wants to set itself up, say, to only match Asian-American men and Native American women who are both over the age of 40 and Jehovah’s Witnesses, it should be free to do so. And if you don’t like the fact that eHarmony doesn’t match same-sex couples, go over to Match.com (or one of many other matchmaking sites).
Nor should adoption agencies be obliged to take unmarried people on an equal basis - even where state law allows unmarried people to adopt. In fact, private adoption agencies (that don’t accept government funding or place children for government agencies) might reasonably be allowed to place restrictions that wouldn’t be acceptable in regular contracts, or in county adoptions or adoptions by groups that received government subsidies (I’d be OK, for example, with a private adoption agency that only worked within a particular faith community, though religion’s normally a protected category).
There may be some cases where it’s reasonable to allow a group to practice a form of discrimination that’s morally repugnant, but at a cost. For instance, I think that the resolution of the Bob Jones University case, where they were able to continue to forbid interracial dating on campus for years, but had to lose their tax exempt status for that, was reasonable. (So was the opprobrium they got from the rest of the country for enforcing that rule.)
Next unrelated topic - Proposition K. belledame222, assembling links for the 11th Feminist Carnival of Sexual Freedom and Autonomy before the election, has several pro-Prop K links. Prop K would have decriminalized prostitution in San Francisco, and it lost. I didn’t bother looking at or commenting on the proposition before the election, because I’m not in San Francisco. But I’m going to state again the general principles that guide my thinking about laws on prostitution.
First, the law isn’t meant to perfectly reflect morality; many things may be wrong that shouldn’t be made illegal.
Second, though I think that we have a certain right to privacy that covers sexual liberty, I don’t think we should have as strong a right to sexual liberty as to, say, free speech. A big part of the reason for this is that there are degrees of coerciveness in sex, such that, besides the obvious cases of outright physical violence, there are some things that could be experienced as coercive by most women, that could get argued to be “consensual” sex that no one should interfere with (and you can, in fact, find people willing to make such arguments about everything from sexual harrassment to sex with people who are falling down drunk). It’s easier for people to make those dubious “freedom” arguments if one makes sexual liberty out to be a right absolutely as strong as freedom of speech, than if one makes it out to be one that’s implied in privacy rights, but a bit more qualified than something like freedom of speech.
Third, I’m not libertarian about economic arrangements; I think that governments may appropriately set conditions on what you can buy and sell and under what circumstances, in the interest of protecting people from exploitation.
Fourth, the most important interest the government has in prostitution is protecting prostitutes who are subject to trafficking, abuse, etc. That interest is more important than either the morality arguments or the sexual liberty arguments that can be made.
Based on those principles, I believe that, whatever else we do, the prostitutes themselves should be decriminalized. Whether that should be done by going with something like the Swedish system, or whether it should be done by some other form of legalization or decriminalization in combination with cracking down on trafficking and the like, is something that can be argued pragmatically, based on what proves to work. The exact best answer might vary from one jurisdiction to another. But making prostitutes subject to arrest has easily more downside than upside. When there is a victim in prostitution, when there’s someone acting under duress, that someone is the prostitute, and those prostitutes who are in that position should be free to seek whatever help they may need, from police and others.
Final unrelated topic, “casual sex.” There was a thread at Hugo Schwyzer’s blog that digressed into a discussion of the meaning of this phrase. Here are my thoughts. Among the range of attitudes toward sexual morality in this country, you can find “it’s fine as long as it’s consensual and condoms are used as needed,” “it’s fine as long as you’re in love,” and “it’s fine as long as you’re married.” Oversimplifying a lot here, because there’s a lot more of a range in detail than that, but in this case, I want to discuss the “it’s fine as long as you’re in love” position.
For a lot of people - well, me anyway - this is the most intuitively appealing position at a gut level (a gut level that, of course, sets aside for the moment the question of whether it’s the most defensible Christian standard). Waiting all the way till marriage feels hard, sex when you’re not at all in love feels like using and being used, but sex with love, at a gut level, just feels right. But there’s a flaw in this position, one way in which, even though it appeals to my heart, my head finds it more problematic than the positions I’ve put on either side of it - it has less to do with behavior and responsibilities and treatment of others than with emotions and feelings. You can be really, really in love, and still get an STD. You can be really, really in love, and still wind up with AIDS. You can be really, really in love, and still find out, when your birth control fails (or when your decision to forgo the birth control just this one time, with someone you really love, proves rash) that you really don’t have a relationship that will hold together in the face of expecting a child.
And one of the problems with criticizing “casual sex” is that it’s easy to take that in fuzzy ways that don’t have much to do with really thinking about what responsible sexual behavior involves - “casual sex” is sex if you’re not really, really in love, or sex if you haven’t had the requisite number of dates first, or sex with a number of partners that’s, well, fuzzy, but certainly more partners than I’ve had. So, if you’re going to criticize “casual sex,” be sure to be clear about what sex you don’t consider casual; otherwise people will just fill in their own varied ideas, and pat themselves on the back for not having “casual sex” by their own standards.
Actually setting forth a rationale for what kinds of sexual behavior you consider wise is a different thing. Two of the bloggers I read often are non-worksafe figleaf and Steven Barnes. Both of them talk a lot about sex (figleaf with more explicitness than the much more work safe Steven Barnes). Both of them clearly see sex as a vital and positive part of life. Neither of them seems to have a sexual ethic tied particularly strongly to a particular religious tradition, and neither goes with the old rule that you should need to be married to have sex. And both are pro-choice, as well as, of course, pro-birth control.
But beyond that, the guidelines they set seem to be very different. figleaf, who likes to call himself a “prudish libertine” or a “libertine prude,” has lots of ideas about what ways of approaching sex are desirable, but none of them require any level or intimacy or relationship between the partners (assuming both enthusiastically consent). Steve has said that it’s wisest not to have sex with anyone from whom you wouldn’t take a 2am phone call a year later, and that it’s not good to have sex under any circumstances where you wouldn’t be around long enough to know if a pregnancy resulted. Now, the thing about this advice is, whether you think it’s the right place to draw the line or not, it’s a clear place to draw the line, and not an arbitrary one. I think this kind of advice is rationally defensible in secular terms (and the 2am phone call example rather appeals to me), but simply letting people read whatever they want into “casual sex,” not such a good idea.